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I'm not calling for an alcohol ban in any way.
I wouldn't say the report I quoted actually agreed with alcohol use in any way.
That would really make it look un-scientific and woolly. Hmmmm…
No, it's simple to see that research has shown a statistical link between alcohol use and gout ,over 12 years and compared against non drinkers , to boot!
Further there's another recent report from the US showing similar results [about a doubling of risk of gout with beer use) which I quoted before.
I have the printed article from the paper somewhere ,so will find it eventually.
If you 'do' both G and Alc.- then beware especially if getting bad twinges or enduring an attack!
Would anyone reading this please write in if they actually drink aclohol during an attack, Please? – if topic not pre-emptively closed first!
[No Proxies allowed]
I've moved this to a separate topic from Gout And Alcohol Expert, because it doesn't really address the issue.
I would really quite like to discuss this topic, but I don't want to muddy the waters in the original topic which is seeking to discuss the issue of a total alcohol ban for gout sufferers.
Now, I have been a little scathing about the reliance on statistical studies. Having had some training in statistics, I am aware that statistical analysis is useful in identifying trends, but great care must be taken in drawing conclusions from those trends.
The study referred to is a worthy reference for finding associations, but that in itself does not explain the link. Yes there is a link, but what is the nature of that link?
Clearly there is an overarching association that shows an increased risk of gout amongst alcohol drinkers. Equally clearly, as the different types of alcohol give different values, the link cannot simply be alcohol. If it were, then there would be a distinct correlation between the strength of alcohol and the amount of alcohol consumed. This is not the case. As stated: “moderate wine drinking does not increase the risk”.
This raises other questions.
Would further sub-analysis of the data reveal that some alcohol is actually good for gout?
Or is it the case that alcohol is irrelevant, and some other substances are the real link between these drinking habits and gout?
So the report proves that there is no statistical justification for banning all alcohol. It gives pointers to suggest that beer is bad, spirits less so, and wine has no effect.
Does experience bear this out? Has anyone seen any evidence of the direct efffect of alcohol on uric acid readings (which is probably all that matters).
@GP The direct efffect of alcohol on uric acid readings (which is probably all that matters).
This issuer has been niggling me for a while now.. not the argument here, but the issue of Alcohol on gout needle coatings, liver function and as a trigger factor in general.
Concentrating on the absolute level of UA on one day after 20 years of possible build up seems to oversimplify the issue in my view.
Gout is affected individually by rates of deposition, absorpsion, re- laying down, impact at any particular site as to pain generated, dietary impact AND Alcohol intake. This latter is the only 'short term' input of the lot in my experience* and therefore is only the last nail in the coffin.
[* Recently having No alcohol for 4 weeks- then an attack within hopurs of a beer binge.]
This is , anyway, hardly a reason to consider banning it for gout- if indeed this could ever be done.
However, to support alcohol as thus barely implicated is a jump too far as spin goes- because no-one is ever going get a blood test done to prove or disprove the point.
it would be un-ethical medicine and anyone in risk of a severe reaction at such a critical time would indeed be foolish to risk more trouble, even for the sake of science.
In this case, average statistics are all we have, or likely to have – and show clear traits on the issue of Gout and the negative effect of Alcohol [at least Beer & Spirits]
Lots of good questions/points raised here and I hope this won’t muddy the issue but I can’t help but wonder if alcohol use is anymore/anyless a demon than any high purine food. Speaking with my own real world experience in mind, beer/wine/hard spirits have been something I’ve enjoyed with high purine foods. For instance during barbecue season, I have always enjoyed fine cold beers along with the brisket. Which one of the two is more likely to cause me an attack? As Trev points out, unless we do the blood work we really can’t say, can we?
Possibly the fact that [red] wine has the compound resveratrol in it that may help reduce any due inflammation, along with other fractions that seem to be good for us*. The fact that two glasses of wine daily are always quoted as 'good for us' says something. I suppose some trails would audit back to some pushy vineyard somewhere- but at least I have one 'legit' poison left.
* .
I must say that , Goutwise, it's definitely the lesser of the 'three evils' in my case- but one must still remember dutifully to drink plain water before retiring on it.
Added benefit- less risk of dehydration & hangover
@ GP: Equally clearly, as the different types of alcohol give different values, the link cannot simply be alcohol.
The whole point of my original discussion was to highlight this fact.
Obviously there is a difference in the carrier of the alcohol in each variarion and if wine carries its own protector- so be it.
Nowhere have I suggested a ban on alcohol and to keep mixing the two issues of 'relative harm to gout' and 'absolute stoppage' is obscuring discourse here.
To separate into 3 threads is just making things worse- and solely to avoid a rather harsh opinion from Ben?
If Beer is bad for gout then people reporting it again and again may be statistics- but it's also called reality.
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